The Forgotten WM3 /// 386 /// 387

14 comments

  • Lily & Dobby
    Lily & Dobby Charlotte, NC
    LOVE this theme song, it's my favorite one so far!! So beautiful. Thanks.

    LOVE this theme song, it's my favorite one so far!! So beautiful.

    Thanks.

  • Justin
    Justin Mlps, Mn
    I’m sorry I just have to comment on this one. I’ve never left a comment before but I feel I just need to say something now. I mean talk about starting with a suspect and then making a profile to match!! Clemente’s profile calls for a guy in his early 30’s!! I’ve never heard of anything so specific! I’ve heard of late 20’s to mid 30’s or maybe possibly late 20’s to early 30’s. But just early 30’s... come on, are we really suppose to buy that? And someone who’s a hunter OR A BUTCHER... Because the boys were tied up? That really tells u that? That’s just ridiculous. It’s only on there because Terry Hobbs once worked in a meat packing plant. I mean I get it, Bobs friends with Damien so he can’t just drill him with questions. But there is still other suspects out there. Or at the VERY least people that need to be asked for their DNA and questioned about where they were that night. Especially James A Lantz who called the police that night with a complaint that kids were throwing rocks at his house and he knows which kids they are (which just so happens to be the call that the female police officer took when she left the call about the injured Mr. Bojangles at the restaurant). Je also happened to live maybe 100 to 150 yards from where the kids were found. No ones knows what was written in her report about that incident because no one yet has taken the time to do a records and information request about it. I mean I’d sure like to know which kids he suspected of throwing the rocks especially since Heather Klutz (who was a friend of Ryan Byers, Chris’ older brother) stated that she had witnessed the boys throwing rocks earlier that day. And in case you’re wondering what James said in his follow up interview during the neighborhood canvas the following week or two... it turns out, he said nothing. He had already packed up and moved out of the area within two weeks of the murder. I’m not saying he’s responsible, but he may have some more info about what all went on that night. Maybe the kids threw rocks at his neighbors house too that he witnessed ? Or across the street, or whatever. But someone should ask him about it. I know Bob can’t track down this lead because it might point away from Hobbs and he’s too far invested with him. Bob all but accused Hobbs of killing the kids when he was crying and calling him an SOB on episode two of his show. But maybe u guys can help?

    I’m sorry I just have to comment on this one. I’ve never left a comment before but I feel I just need to say something now. I mean talk about starting with a suspect and then making a profile to match!! Clemente’s profile calls for a guy in his early 30’s!! I’ve never heard of anything so specific! I’ve heard of late 20’s to mid 30’s or maybe possibly late 20’s to early 30’s. But just early 30’s... come on, are we really suppose to buy that? And someone who’s a hunter OR A BUTCHER... Because the boys were tied up? That really tells u that? That’s just ridiculous. It’s only on there because Terry Hobbs once worked in a meat packing plant.
    I mean I get it, Bobs friends with Damien so he can’t just drill him with questions. But there is still other suspects out there. Or at the VERY least people that need to be asked for their DNA and questioned about where they were that night. Especially James A Lantz who called the police that night with a complaint that kids were throwing rocks at his house and he knows which kids they are (which just so happens to be the call that the female police officer took when she left the call about the injured Mr. Bojangles at the restaurant). Je also happened to live maybe 100 to 150 yards from where the kids were found.
    No ones knows what was written in her report about that incident because no one yet has taken the time to do a records and information request about it. I mean I’d sure like to know which kids he suspected of throwing the rocks especially since Heather Klutz (who was a friend of Ryan Byers, Chris’ older brother) stated that she had witnessed the boys throwing rocks earlier that day.
    And in case you’re wondering what James said in his follow up interview during the neighborhood canvas the following week or two... it turns out, he said nothing. He had already packed up and moved out of the area within two weeks of the murder.
    I’m not saying he’s responsible, but he may have some more info about what all went on that night. Maybe the kids threw rocks at his neighbors house too that he witnessed ? Or across the street, or whatever. But someone should ask him about it.
    I know Bob can’t track down this lead because it might point away from Hobbs and he’s too far invested with him. Bob all but accused Hobbs of killing the kids when he was crying and calling him an SOB on episode two of his show. But maybe u guys can help?

  • Jessica
    Jessica Greenville, NC
    Love these episodes with Bob Ruff! Quick question....assuming Terry Hobbs committed the crime, what made him go to Robin Hood Hills to find the boys? My theory is that Stevie left his house again when Terry took Pam to work and when he got home he was pissed that Stevie had left again. What made him go to the woods to find Stevie? Was he looking for him and see the boys bikes at the pipe bridge and that led him to the woods? Did anyone ever talk to Stevie’s sister to get more details about what happened after Pam left for work?

    Love these episodes with Bob Ruff! Quick question....assuming Terry Hobbs committed the crime, what made him go to Robin Hood Hills to find the boys? My theory is that Stevie left his house again when Terry took Pam to work and when he got home he was pissed that Stevie had left again. What made him go to the woods to find Stevie? Was he looking for him and see the boys bikes at the pipe bridge and that led him to the woods? Did anyone ever talk to Stevie’s sister to get more details about what happened after Pam left for work?

  • Ayse
    Ayse Istanbul
    Damn. Just damn. This episode’s music has got to be my favorite. So evocative it hurts. Ugh!

    Damn. Just damn. This episode’s music has got to be my favorite. So evocative it hurts. Ugh!

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    The truth Jessica is we don't know - no one seems to know. If we did know who and why someone went into Robinhood looking for or with the boys we would have the most valuable piece to the puzzle. Regarding Stevie's sister - I'm going off of memory here so forgive me if I got it wrong... From our research from years ago - I believe her name is Amanda and she would have been very young - younger than Stevie so I'm not sure how reliable of a witness she would have been. At the time she said or believed she was with Terry the whole time Pam was at work. Years later David Jacoby said its possible that Terry left Amanda with him to watch - he said it was common for Terry to leave Amanda and or Stevie with him. Have a good weekend everyone! Nic

    The truth Jessica is we don't know - no one seems to know. If we did know who and why someone went into Robinhood looking for or with the boys we would have the most valuable piece to the puzzle.
    Regarding Stevie's sister - I'm going off of memory here so forgive me if I got it wrong... From our research from years ago - I believe her name is Amanda and she would have been very young - younger than Stevie so I'm not sure how reliable of a witness she would have been. At the time she said or believed she was with Terry the whole time Pam was at work. Years later David Jacoby said its possible that Terry left Amanda with him to watch - he said it was common for Terry to leave Amanda and or Stevie with him.
    Have a good weekend everyone!
    Nic

  • Mark
    Mark Chicago
    Complete and utter rubbish this Bob just because he befriended the real guilty party is making his quest to find a scapegoat. They got the real animals that did it and then they let them out. Liberals like this Bob guy love to open the jails and let criminals out, to them feeling good is finding some supposed wrongly convicted and getting them out. All three should still be rotting in jail, hell they should have been strapped to the gurney.

    Complete and utter rubbish this Bob just because he befriended the real guilty party is making his quest to find a scapegoat. They got the real animals that did it and then they let them out. Liberals like this Bob guy love to open the jails and let criminals out, to them feeling good is finding some supposed wrongly convicted and getting them out.
    All three should still be rotting in jail, hell they should have been strapped to the gurney.

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Is Bob a liberal? Mark how were you able to determine this? Regardless thank you for posting. I think the debate is a fascinating one. I do think that an opinion that strong should be stated with a little evidence. Cheers Nic

    Is Bob a liberal? Mark how were you able to determine this?
    Regardless thank you for posting. I think the debate is a fascinating one. I do think that an opinion that strong should be stated with a little evidence.
    Cheers Nic

  • Aaron
    Aaron Arlington, TX
    Really enjoyed the episodes! I constantly go back and forth on the innocence of the WM3 but I do want to believe they’re innocence however there’s a few items of evidence I have a hard time with but maybe there are explanations for these now as it’s been a while since I last researched this case. For example when Damien was questioned before details were released he stated facts only the killers would know like the boys having urine in their stomachs as just one example. The Evan Williams bottle Jesse said he broke under the bridge although it could be a coincidence. Also the necklace the WM3 shared that was in a few photos and had blood from Branch and Echols although not perfect matches because of the technology at the time and I wish they could test it again now. Also I believe that the turtles would have mutilated the bodies some and agree with that idea but some of the marks don’t look like animal bites they look like circles from possibly the butt of a compass bottom knife like the one Damien had. So it’s hard to say if all the marks were from animals it could possibly be a combo of both. Lastly Jessie’s so many confessions even after he was convicted and I know is seems he’s lying which is because he was, he was trying to remove himself and he said to confuse the cops on purpose. BUT of course there’s other evidence supporting the idea it was just one killer as stated in these episodes so I’m just not sure but wanted to see if anyone has heard explanations for these points. Thanks again and keep up the great work!

    Really enjoyed the episodes! I constantly go back and forth on the innocence of the WM3 but I do want to believe they’re innocence however there’s a few items of evidence I have a hard time with but maybe there are explanations for these now as it’s been a while since I last researched this case. For example when Damien was questioned before details were released he stated facts only the killers would know like the boys having urine in their stomachs as just one example. The Evan Williams bottle Jesse said he broke under the bridge although it could be a coincidence. Also the necklace the WM3 shared that was in a few photos and had blood from Branch and Echols although not perfect matches because of the technology at the time and I wish they could test it again now. Also I believe that the turtles would have mutilated the bodies some and agree with that idea but some of the marks don’t look like animal bites they look like circles from possibly the butt of a compass bottom knife like the one Damien had. So it’s hard to say if all the marks were from animals it could possibly be a combo of both. Lastly Jessie’s so many confessions even after he was convicted and I know is seems he’s lying which is because he was, he was trying to remove himself and he said to confuse the cops on purpose. BUT of course there’s other evidence supporting the idea it was just one killer as stated in these episodes so I’m just not sure but wanted to see if anyone has heard explanations for these points. Thanks again and keep up the great work!

  • mG
    mG tX
    Every aspect of our society today is so politicized. I see people in here who don't agree with Bob, so they use an ideological term (liberal) to disparage him. That is what we do in every topic today. You give any opinion on a mater void of anything having to do with politics, and somehow, people make it political. It is so insane. I have almost turned off to reading any public commentary anymore because so much of it is just people looking to politically spin everything the way they want to believe something. I get it now, someone says something you don't want to believe, it is because they are politically different from yourself. Ignorance and public forums, hand in hand. As to the case. The detective that found the bodies in the creek, removed the sticks that were submerging the clothes of the kids. Each one of those sticks could be seen above the waterline. That means those sticks have the DNA of the person that stuck them in the creek. He held the dry parts when sticking them in. Where are the sticks?

    Every aspect of our society today is so politicized. I see people in here who don't agree with Bob, so they use an ideological term (liberal) to disparage him. That is what we do in every topic today. You give any opinion on a mater void of anything having to do with politics, and somehow, people make it political. It is so insane. I have almost turned off to reading any public commentary anymore because so much of it is just people looking to politically spin everything the way they want to believe something. I get it now, someone says something you don't want to believe, it is because they are politically different from yourself. Ignorance and public forums, hand in hand.

    As to the case. The detective that found the bodies in the creek, removed the sticks that were submerging the clothes of the kids. Each one of those sticks could be seen above the waterline. That means those sticks have the DNA of the person that stuck them in the creek. He held the dry parts when sticking them in. Where are the sticks?

  • True Crime Garage
    True Crime Garage
    Spot on mG! We the little guys, urged all for years to stand up for yourself, have a voice, be informed and have an opinion. Today we criticize people for doing just that and it's said. We are straight up encouraging many to shut down. Where is the intelligence in this... I expect everyone to have an opinion. I expect everyone to have political and religious views and values (or not to have them- which is the same thing). I know we are all different and unique and therefore I expect opinions, politics, views and values to be different. It's unfair, rude and straight-up dumb to criticize someone for being different and thinking different. Or to label someone who you know very little about. If we all thought the same or shut down open discussions we would be making the same mistakes time and time again throughout the course of our history. Maybe the current crisis with how obvious it is that we are in a situation where we are learning and adapting minute by minute and hour by hour will be a good tool for how we should share our's and respect other's thoughts - it can't hurt. Cheers Nic

    Spot on mG!
    We the little guys, urged all for years to stand up for yourself, have a voice, be informed and have an opinion. Today we criticize people for doing just that and it's said. We are straight up encouraging many to shut down. Where is the intelligence in this...
    I expect everyone to have an opinion. I expect everyone to have political and religious views and values (or not to have them- which is the same thing). I know we are all different and unique and therefore I expect opinions, politics, views and values to be different. It's unfair, rude and straight-up dumb to criticize someone for being different and thinking different. Or to label someone who you know very little about.
    If we all thought the same or shut down open discussions we would be making the same mistakes time and time again throughout the course of our history. Maybe the current crisis with how obvious it is that we are in a situation where we are learning and adapting minute by minute and hour by hour will be a good tool for how we should share our's and respect other's thoughts - it can't hurt.
    Cheers Nic

  • Amy
    Amy MO
    GREAT MUSIC on these episodes!! i am almost skipped them because this story has been done to death. but i am glad i listened. these poor boys dont seem to be the focus anymore. i still think Terry Hobbs did it but i liked hearing some more info i didnt know about before, like how Stevie went home for dinner and went back out and that the place they were killed was not super remote like we once thought. great job guys

    GREAT MUSIC on these episodes!! i am almost skipped them because this story has been done to death. but i am glad i listened. these poor boys dont seem to be the focus anymore. i still think Terry Hobbs did it but i liked hearing some more info i didnt know about before, like how Stevie went home for dinner and went back out and that the place they were killed was not super remote like we once thought. great job guys

  • Ryan, Leicester UK
    Ryan, Leicester UK
    A few pieces of v flawed logic from Bob here, feels like confirmation-bias. The evidence suggests the same guy tied all the ropes on the victims so there must have been only one perpetrator? Huh? How about one guy did all the knots as he was the best at them and any others let him do it for that reason. And If there was more than one perp then the secret of what they did would have come out? Errrr ... why? Obviously the more people who were involved the more likely it is the secret gets spilled, relatively speaking, but that doesnt mean it necessarily would do. Any person involved is guilty of a heinous crime and would have the exact same amount of self-preservation instinct as any lone perp. These are not huge issues, granted, but evidence that bob seems determined that there was a single perp and draws erroneous conclusions from things to support his theory rather than letting the evidence guide him ..... at least in these aspects. I respect the guy's knowledge and commitment to the case but I would much rather hear from someone with an objective, reasonable viewpoint than someone who stuck a pig carcass into a creek.

    A few pieces of v flawed logic from Bob here, feels like confirmation-bias. The evidence suggests the same guy tied all the ropes on the victims so there must have been only one perpetrator? Huh? How about one guy did all the knots as he was the best at them and any others let him do it for that reason. And If there was more than one perp then the secret of what they did would have come out? Errrr ... why? Obviously the more people who were involved the more likely it is the secret gets spilled, relatively speaking, but that doesnt mean it necessarily would do. Any person involved is guilty of a heinous crime and would have the exact same amount of self-preservation instinct as any lone perp.
    These are not huge issues, granted, but evidence that bob seems determined that there was a single perp and draws erroneous conclusions from things to support his theory rather than letting the evidence guide him ..... at least in these aspects. I respect the guy's knowledge and commitment to the case but I would much rather hear from someone with an objective, reasonable viewpoint than someone who stuck a pig carcass into a creek.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Parts unknown
    Hi Captain and Nic. Love the show! Can't let go of the part of FWM3 episode where they discuss how many people statistically match the same DNA profile as found on hairs from the crime scene. Yes, hair found in the bindings matches Terry Hobbs and many other people, I can believe it came from someone other than him. Way harder for me to believe it's an accident that both hairs found at the crime scene match TH and David Jacoby but have nothing to do with them. Kind of ironic that Terry Hobbs tried to pull in David Jacoby to support his alibi, while in my mind DJ's DNA reinforces the probability that it was actually Terry Hobbs DNA in the bindings.

    Hi Captain and Nic. Love the show!

    Can't let go of the part of FWM3 episode where they discuss how many people statistically match the same DNA profile as found on hairs from the crime scene.

    Yes, hair found in the bindings matches Terry Hobbs and many other people, I can believe it came from someone other than him. Way harder for me to believe it's an accident that both hairs found at the crime scene match TH and David Jacoby but have nothing to do with them.

    Kind of ironic that Terry Hobbs tried to pull in David Jacoby to support his alibi, while in my mind DJ's DNA reinforces the probability that it was actually Terry Hobbs DNA in the bindings.

  • Rachel
    Rachel Ohio
    Great show! After watching the docu-series and seeing Bob's interview with David Jacoby and how emotional he was; I'm beginning to wonder if maybe David just witnessed Terry committing the crime and was too scared to do or say anything. Terry seemed to like to threaten people and David had children as well. That might explain Terry trying to pull David in for his alibi.

    Great show! After watching the docu-series and seeing Bob's interview with David Jacoby and how emotional he was; I'm beginning to wonder if maybe David just witnessed Terry committing the crime and was too scared to do or say anything. Terry seemed to like to threaten people and David had children as well. That might explain Terry trying to pull David in for his alibi.

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